CS548 Questions

Hi All,

I'm planning to buy a CS548 Scope for my power related measurements and I have a few questions:

1) What's the actual measurement range for the 4 onboard channels? I see the device is supplied with x100 probes, so i am guessing less than 30V? But i can't find this information.

2) Are there any planned release times for the CS1303 4 channel Isolated Current Measurement module and will I be able to use this module in adition to the onboard 4 channels or will I need to buy another device (for example the CS508) to simultaneously display them all? Same question for the CS1302 and CS1301 digital inputs.

3) Is it possible to supply the device from a USB type C (20V 60W) supply? I'm sure most I'm not the only one that wants to use this as a compact device to carry over while visiting customers and It would be very convenient to carry a small type C adapter, as already used for laptop.

4) What current probes are currently available? I only see voltage probes.

5) What's the availability of the CS1233 probe?

Thanks!

Hi All, I'm planning to buy a CS548 Scope for my power related measurements and I have a few questions: 1) What's the actual measurement range for the 4 onboard channels? I see the device is supplied with x100 probes, so i am guessing less than 30V? But i can't find this information. 2) Are there any planned release times for the CS1303 4 channel Isolated Current Measurement module and will I be able to use this module in adition to the onboard 4 channels or will I need to buy another device (for example the CS508) to simultaneously display them all? Same question for the CS1302 and CS1301 digital inputs. 3) Is it possible to supply the device from a USB type C (20V 60W) supply? I'm sure most I'm not the only one that wants to use this as a compact device to carry over while visiting customers and It would be very convenient to carry a small type C adapter, as already used for laptop. 4) What current probes are currently available? I only see voltage probes. 5) What's the availability of the CS1233 probe? Thanks!

Hi Carlos,
Thanks for the questions!
1. The actual measurement ranges are +/-0.8V and +/-8V. We have done this to maximize dynamic range. The more active elements in the switching path, the greater the noise. The scope application automtatically switches ranges based on the scope display amplitude range you have set. The rationale is that the 1x/10x probe will cover up to +/8V, the 10x up to +/-80V and you get a choice of 100x or 200x probe, and they cover up to +/800V or +/-1600V. Resolution is 1 part in 16000, so the 100x probe has a resolution of 100mV when measuring 800V. This information is in the CS548 System Spec, which I attach.
2. For this question you need to be aware that we have two 'Pod' inputs. Each Pod input has 5 high speed LVDS bidirectional lanes in it. We can use the pod as an expansion port for the scope. The CS1301 input pod and CS1302 output pod are available now. The CS1301 can be used for digital measurements (up to 8 channels with two pods), and the CS1302 has 4 out, 1 in, and we currently support Pulse generation and PWM via our Pulse Builder module. At some point we will enable isolated SPI, Uart and I2C functions as well. We also have a fibre isolated version of them (CS1308 and CS1309) for driving optically connected gate drives. Now the CS1303/4 will be pod connected, and so you won't need another scope. The application will support the extra 4 channels. However, we have not built it, as we got derailed by our CS1202 power digitizer. This is a fibre isolated dual channel digitizer that does both current and voltage, and includes all the capability of the CS1233. We have abandoned the CS1233, as we could not get sufficient CMRR with the approach we took (you need about 130 dB at 50 MHz to measure a low value (1-2 mOhm) resistor correctly. So for the moment the CS1202 work has superseeded the CS1303. We will be making a presentation at Apec 2024 about the CS1202.
3. We would need to make a hardware change, or provide a USB-C to 19V adaptor to support USB C power. Maybe that is on the cards if demand is sufficient.
4. We supply two current probes with 1MHz and 1.5 MHz from Pintek currently (the CS1060 and CS1061). When we bring out the CS1202 it will included a high bandwidth (>300 MHz), high CMRR PCB mounted current sensor.
5. The CS1233 has been discontinued. The CS1202 will replace it, some time next year. See the attached Apec presentation for what it will do.

If you have questions, please ask.

Bart

Hi Carlos, Thanks for the questions! 1. The actual measurement ranges are +/-0.8V and +/-8V. We have done this to maximize dynamic range. The more active elements in the switching path, the greater the noise. The scope application automtatically switches ranges based on the scope display amplitude range you have set. The rationale is that the 1x/10x probe will cover up to +/8V, the 10x up to +/-80V and you get a choice of 100x or 200x probe, and they cover up to +/800V or +/-1600V. Resolution is 1 part in 16000, so the 100x probe has a resolution of 100mV when measuring 800V. This information is in the CS548 System Spec, which I attach. 2. For this question you need to be aware that we have two 'Pod' inputs. Each Pod input has 5 high speed LVDS bidirectional lanes in it. We can use the pod as an expansion port for the scope. The CS1301 input pod and CS1302 output pod are available now. The CS1301 can be used for digital measurements (up to 8 channels with two pods), and the CS1302 has 4 out, 1 in, and we currently support Pulse generation and PWM via our Pulse Builder module. At some point we will enable isolated SPI, Uart and I2C functions as well. We also have a fibre isolated version of them (CS1308 and CS1309) for driving optically connected gate drives. Now the CS1303/4 will be pod connected, and so you won't need another scope. The application will support the extra 4 channels. However, we have not built it, as we got derailed by our CS1202 power digitizer. This is a fibre isolated dual channel digitizer that does both current and voltage, and includes all the capability of the CS1233. We have abandoned the CS1233, as we could not get sufficient CMRR with the approach we took (you need about 130 dB at 50 MHz to measure a low value (1-2 mOhm) resistor correctly. So for the moment the CS1202 work has superseeded the CS1303. We will be making a presentation at Apec 2024 about the CS1202. 3. We would need to make a hardware change, or provide a USB-C to 19V adaptor to support USB C power. Maybe that is on the cards if demand is sufficient. 4. We supply two current probes with 1MHz and 1.5 MHz from Pintek currently (the CS1060 and CS1061). When we bring out the CS1202 it will included a high bandwidth (>300 MHz), high CMRR PCB mounted current sensor. 5. The CS1233 has been discontinued. The CS1202 will replace it, some time next year. See the attached Apec presentation for what it will do. If you have questions, please ask. Bart

Thanks Bart. You guys do seem busy!

I can't see your attachments, did you forgot them, or is there a special way to acess them?

I would like would be to conduct measurents of current, ideally via sense resistors on board or maybe an external breakout board with sense resistors fitted. So far I have found very difficult to do this with a normal oscilloscope, even without the isolated probes on a grounded signal, the noise picked by the probes is often larger than the signals itself, so very hard to take reverse recovery measurents, for example, unless using a relativelly large current sense. We are using some isolated keysight N2774A probes and those seem to offer a good performance, but they are not really portable with their huge power supply unit, plus each of them costs as much as the cleverscope itself!

So this CS1202 - is this also 4 cannels (3x current and 1x voltage) and would I be able to use it together with the other four channels in the scope, plus the digital I/O module (to drive an IGBT, for example) or each pod shares a channel with the internal oscilloscope channel, meaning I would not be able to use the corresponding channel when using an external POD on the corresponding port?

When will the CS1202 become available for sale and do you have a rough idea of it's cost? Should we expect it for 2024?

Thanks!

Thanks Bart. You guys do seem busy! I can't see your attachments, did you forgot them, or is there a special way to acess them? I would like would be to conduct measurents of current, ideally via sense resistors on board or maybe an external breakout board with sense resistors fitted. So far I have found very difficult to do this with a normal oscilloscope, even without the isolated probes on a grounded signal, the noise picked by the probes is often larger than the signals itself, so very hard to take reverse recovery measurents, for example, unless using a relativelly large current sense. We are using some isolated keysight N2774A probes and those seem to offer a good performance, but they are not really portable with their huge power supply unit, plus each of them costs as much as the cleverscope itself! So this CS1202 - is this also 4 cannels (3x current and 1x voltage) and would I be able to use it together with the other four channels in the scope, plus the digital I/O module (to drive an IGBT, for example) or each pod shares a channel with the internal oscilloscope channel, meaning I would not be able to use the corresponding channel when using an external POD on the corresponding port? When will the CS1202 become available for sale and do you have a rough idea of it's cost? Should we expect it for 2024? Thanks!

Hello Carlos,
Unfortunately the forum did not like the size of the files. You can find details of the CS548 on this page: https://cleverscope.com/products/CS548, and the link to the spec is down the bottom. Here is a direct link to the spec: https://cleverscope.com/files/CS548%20System%20Specification%20v1.6.pdf.

The CS1202 is in development. You should expect it in 2024. A preliminary description can be found here:
https://cleverscope.com/files/CS1202%20Power%20Probe%20-%20Characterizing%20In%20Circuit%20Switch%20Device%20Performance.pdf

The CS1202 is used instead of our CS1200, and plugs into the high speed QSFP Remote Probe, and uses the same 40G Active Optical Cable for communication. It is not pod connected. It provides 2 x isolated 14 bit 250 MSPS channels that can be switched to various sources, including Vds and Ids. The CS1202 becomes two channels for that remote input. With 4 x CS1202 plugged in, you would get 8 channels, but at the slower sampling rate of 250 MSPS. But we do provide hardware calculation of the power/energy, which is much higher bandwidth. 8 channels will allow three phase current/voltage + DC link curent and voltage.

We are working on the current sensor right now. Here is capture of a 13A pulse through a 2mOhm current sense resistor measuring Ids of a high side transistor, while switching common mode 240V with a 10-90% rise/fall of about 8.4 ns. Our compensation network is not quite right, and will be improved. This is just a development capture.

The Pods all work in parallel with the main capture channels, and are all displayed at the same time.

Bart

Hello Carlos, Unfortunately the forum did not like the size of the files. You can find details of the CS548 on this page: https://cleverscope.com/products/CS548, and the link to the spec is down the bottom. Here is a direct link to the spec: https://cleverscope.com/files/CS548%20System%20Specification%20v1.6.pdf. The CS1202 is in development. You should expect it in 2024. A preliminary description can be found here: https://cleverscope.com/files/CS1202%20Power%20Probe%20-%20Characterizing%20In%20Circuit%20Switch%20Device%20Performance.pdf The CS1202 is used instead of our CS1200, and plugs into the high speed QSFP Remote Probe, and uses the same 40G Active Optical Cable for communication. It is not pod connected. It provides 2 x isolated 14 bit 250 MSPS channels that can be switched to various sources, including Vds and Ids. The CS1202 becomes two channels for that remote input. With 4 x CS1202 plugged in, you would get 8 channels, but at the slower sampling rate of 250 MSPS. But we do provide hardware calculation of the power/energy, which is much higher bandwidth. 8 channels will allow three phase current/voltage + DC link curent and voltage. We are working on the current sensor right now. Here is capture of a 13A pulse through a 2mOhm current sense resistor measuring Ids of a high side transistor, while switching common mode 240V with a 10-90% rise/fall of about 8.4 ns. Our compensation network is not quite right, and will be improved. This is just a development capture. The Pods all work in parallel with the main capture channels, and are all displayed at the same time. Bart